If you were rejected every time you disclosed, would you?
That’s a provocative slogan if ever there was one. I hope it gets guys talking
You’ve likely guessed this campaign is aimed mostly at negative gay guys. Sometimes I worry though. Will they interpret our campaign slogan If you were rejected every time you disclosed, would you? as poz gays just making excuses for “bad behaviour”? Could it be seen as saying that it’s all right not to disclose one’s status before a quick fuck. I hope not - because neither is the intent. But I must admit that when I first saw this slogan months ago, it set me back a little. On the good side, it resonated with me as a poz guy. It says to negs: “try putting yourself in our shoes - not sympathizing with us (we don’t need that, thanks) but understanding the complexities of our lives - and the forces that shape them”. And I like how the ad doesn’t exactly spell out that stigma is the problem but implies it, with the HIVstigma.com web site reference. It struck me as intriguing and enigmatic enough for guys to want to learn more, perhaps.
To me that slogan is pretty out there, though. Pretty daring. And pretty sophisticated. We’re dealing with complex human behaviours here - we’ve left “Welcome to Condom Country” ads far behind - and now we’re asking guys to think.
Some folks say that neg guys have their heads in the sand when it comes to HIV. I don’t buy that, not as a blanket statement. I know that many neg guys are scared as hell of the disease and go to great lengths not to become infected. But for others, yep, don’t want to hear, don’t want to know.
I know that’s true - because way back when I was negative I didn’t want to hear, didn’t want to know about HIV too. That’s likely why I sero-converted. And even after I was diagnosed, I didn’t want to hear about it - or deal with it. That lasted about six months and then I smartened up.
But anyway, the question is, will we get the attention of negative gay guys? All I can say is we’re making it fucking hard to ignore us.
I was in Toronto yesterday for a meeting with my fellow campaign facilitators - to compare notes and all. I’d heard that a big campaign billboard was up there by the beer store near Church and Wellesley. So I went there to look. It’s ENORMOUS. I took photos.
And then there’s another one over the drug store at the Church and Wellesley corner, the centre of our universe, that you can’ t miss!
On Wellesley subway station, there’s a platform ad, of course. But go up the stairs to street level and there is a HUGE banner advertising our campaign covering the entire width of the entrance, front and back. Never seen anything quite like this.
Downtown Toronto gay guys are really going to have to keep their heads down to miss this one. And I hear similar stuff, albeit on a smaller scale, is headed for other communities in the province.
But I’ll pose the question again: does that slogan work? How will gay guys interpret it, do you think - both poz and neg (I’m guessing there will be a difference in the way they see it). And, here’s another question: what will those funny straight people think?
I wanna know. Talk to me.
And on an entirely unrelated note, the guys on So You Think You Can Dance Canada are very, very cute. Particularly with their shirts off.
Tags: ads, campaign, sero-conversion, stigma, Toronto
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[...]Bob’s Blog » Blog Archive » If you were rejected every time you disclosed, would you?[...]…
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October 25, 2008 06:16 PM
Susan .Thank you so much for chipping in with that comment. “Funny straight people” are very welcome here, you know. In fact some of my best friends are straight.
As a straight woman, you might even like our strippers!
And you make a valid point. I’m thinking that the danger of high-profile targetted campaigns like this - and we must work hard to combat that - is that the spotlight on other groups at risk can be diminished, at least temporarily. On the other hand, prevention efforts on a provincial or national level tend to be multi-pronged nowadays. And targetted prevention seems to work better than a one-size fits all approach
We just can’t afford to neglect women though. Our numbers here in Canada are similar to yours in the U.S. in that new infections in women account for about 28% of the total. That programs aimed at gay men continue to be high profile is inevitable, as that group still accounts for just over 60% of all new infections. But your point is well taken. I’m glad you spoke up.
October 25, 2008 04:09 PM
Susan:
it’s good to hear from people in other countries as well as our own! thanks for your participation (how did you come upon this site?).
A few people have been commenting on the breadth of this issue and wondering about the focus on Gay men as it certainly seems to be a cross-gender, cross-cultural and trans-global one.
As communities find HIV rates rising in certain groups it is often up to the local bodies to fund and develop awareness campaigns that target those groups only. It is much more effective if you can speak the language (so to speak) of those you are targeting. If the group is too broad, the message can become diluted and not resonate, thereby rendering it ineffectual.
There will always be the question of “why” a certain group is being targeted, I suppose we all feel it is unfair to be either targeted or excluded depending on the issue at hand.
My question to you is:
Has the US or your State taken it upon themselves to deliver a campaign of this nature targeted towards the Black and Hispanic community there? If not perhaps it should be pressed to do so.
October 25, 2008 03:36 PM
Thanks, Bob. It’s a tricky thing on the legal question. On the one hand, it’s important that people know that courts have only said disclosure is obligated in cases of unprotected vaginal and anal sex (whether top or bottom).
The courts have also *suggested* that sex with condoms or oral sex (with or without condoms) doesn’t require disclosure (and I agree with them). The thing is, various rulings have only suggested those things but not definitively determined them. There are a few problems with that. One, it leaves poz folks in a grey area of not knowing 100 percent how to protect themselves from (unfair) prosecution. Two, the grey area for some kinds of sex opens up a space where zealous people (poz or neg) could rat other people out for their low-risk activities (such as oral sex) out of a misguided sense of “doing the right thing.”
That’s one of the many reasons criminal law is the wrong tool for this issue. Another is the fact that we aren’t even talking about HIV-specific laws, we are talking about much older laws that are being re-interpreted to “fit” HIV, and not very well. Also, we are basing things on Supreme Court rulings that are not recent; a lot has changed since then in our knowledge about the actual levels of risk for various activities, especially when people are on successful HIV treatment.
People with HIV should be basing decisions on the science and evidence around HIV transmission and their clear and obvious desires to protect others and themselves from any undeserved harm using all methods that are fair and reasonable. The law harms rather than helps these goals. And other people’s strong opinions (either poz or neg) of what poz people should do, when they are based on exaggerations of the known risks, don’t help either.
October 25, 2008 03:01 PM
Hi, As a ‘funny straight’ woman *smile* living in the US, listening to the interviews and reading the posts on your site has made me much more aware of the social issues facing gay men living with HIV. Thank you.
Although I realize your awareness campaign is focused on and includes only gay men, I would like to point out that HIV/AIDS is very much an issue for women as well. Here in the US, one out of every four new HIV/AIDS diagnoses is a woman. The following statistics are from the US government’s CDC (center for disease control) website. I don’t know if the statistics are similar in Canada, but if you are going to put a face on those that are impacted by the stigma of being HIV POS, women are certainly a part of that group.
“Today, women account for more than one quarter of all new HIV/AIDS diagnoses. Women of color are especially affected by HIV infection and AIDS. In 2004 (the most recent year for which data are available), HIV infection was:
• The leading cause of death for black women (including African American women) aged 25–34 years.
• The 3rd leading cause of death for black women aged 35–44 years.
• The 4th leading cause of death for black women aged 45–54 years.
• The 4th leading cause of death for Hispanic women aged 35–44 years.
In the same year, HIV infection was the 5th leading cause of death among all women aged 35–44 years and the 6th leading cause of death among all women aged 25–34 years. The only diseases causing more deaths of women were cancer and heart disease.”
(http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/women/resources/factsheets/women.htm)
October 25, 2008 02:15 PM
To “I’m the only one who knows”.
I’ll echo Rodger’s comments. I think you’ve illustrated that stigma negatively impacts a much wider circle than just poz guys. It clearly hurts their friends and supporters too. So while this campaign focuses on the role of stigma and sex (we are about HIV prevention, after all) we can’t ignore it’s wider implcations. I feel bad that folks like you are suffering. ***hugs***
I’m glad you’ve brought this up though, and personally I can’t say enough how good it feels to have folks like you as allies. Please feel free to continue to contribute; your voice is important here.
October 25, 2008 01:09 PM
Rodger.
On the legal issue, I’m tending to agree with you. There’s evidence of the confusion out there in some of the responses to this post. I think without some explanation of what constitutes “significant risk” that’s going to continue -and it’s not helpful.
I’ll pass on your comments to the site administrators and ask them to look at doing this. Thanks for suggesting it, as well as your continuing role in these discussions.
October 25, 2008 11:37 AM
To “I’m the only one who knows…”. The fact your friend trusts in you must say a lot about you. I bet hearing that crap is really hard for both of you, but I also bet it makes it a tiny bit easier for him that you are there and he knows how you feel. If he has you to talk to about this stuff between the two of you sometimes, that’s an important valve to release the pressure. I have pals like that and I all I can say is friends like you make it a lot easier for guys like me. Thanks.
October 25, 2008 11:34 AM
Bob just a note on the legal issue. I think the site actually contributes to the confusion a bit. On the legal page, there is one single point about the important concept of “significant risk” and then 6 other points about all the cases in which that applies. Those points are mostly self-evident. What is missing that is important is a discussion of what “significant risk” may or may not mean at this point in time based on case law. I know that is not clearcut and there are many unanswered questions. But it is key. There are other web resources that go into much more detail about this. They could be linked to or elaborated upon.
October 25, 2008 11:15 AM
I don’t think the campaign is just about sex…I think it also be about the “subtle ways” we stigmatize poz guys.
I have a close friend who is poz. Out of all our circle of friends, I am the only person who knows. We’ll be out with friends and comments will be made about other poz guys (blaming comments like “those guys should have known better”)…and I sit there paralyzed by the comments and I know my poz friend is in the room having to sit and listen to this shit…from his “close friends”
But I can’t say anything, can defend him, can’t speak up for him.
The one time I asked the group “well how do you know you aren’t poz?” it ended badly…they just said more insulting things about poz guys…and capped it all off with “well none of our friends our poz, we’re all clean”. And these guys are the normal, everyday guys..who say they care. With friends like these…who needs enemies.
October 25, 2008 10:39 AM
“Hey you HIV neg people shouldn’t be so quick to say no to poz people when it comes to having sex.” The not-so-hidden agenda seems to be more sex partners for HIV poz gays.
Abstaining from sex with HIV positive gays should not be portrayed as an offense against the unfortunate carrier of the disease, or an offense against the community.”
Thanks for the reply, PG. Some more thoughts.
The campaign is about sex, the kinds of sex we have and with who, because that’s how HIV can transmitted. And gay communities are used to being pretty upfront when talking about the specifics of sex.
You’ve gotta believe me though, and I don’t know what to say or do to convince you, that for me this is not about being greedy for sex and demanding to have sex with anyone I want, damn the consequences. I have a partner and am very happy. And I wouldn’t necessarily have a problem sticking with only poz people for sex if I really thought that was the best way to protect others.
The site really is saying, (1) it’s okay to have sex with poz guys safely and (2) avoiding poz guys may not protect you the way you think it will. On the surface it seems logically that if you don’t want HIV, stay away from sex with anyone you think has HIV.
But there’s two problems with that. First, it’s totally totally totally possible to have totally safe sex with poz guys, and many of the neg guys on the site are acknowledging that. Two and even more important for neg guys, you should be carefully with **everyone**; many people who have HIV don’t know it, and **those** people are the most likely to spread it, because the virus is way easier to transmit at that earlier stage. Based on that, knowing someone’s HIV status shouldn’t make a difference in the choices you make to protect yourself.
October 25, 2008 09:12 AM
PG:
Your point is very well articulated and I agree with many things you say. I have been thinking during the morning on your first comment (and because of that my hairdresser cut too much hair without me noticing it), and although I see Anonymous comment addresses them, I would like to add my point of view.
Comparing HIV with the cold virus, or with the precautions people take to protect themselves is not quite accurate. You can definitely get the cold virus by shaking hands with another person, because you will 99.9% of the times touch your mouth or your eyes and infect yourself. That is why it is understandable for somebody not to shake your hand. Now, it is almost impossible to get infected with the HIV virus if you don’t have unprotected sex or engage on other unsafe activities like sharing needles or playing with blood, which we are not discussing here, just to simplify the arguments.
Hyper reacting to the potential consequences of HIV is harmful. We are trying to expose it. We are not trying to encourage negative guys to have unprotected sex with positive guys, but we are trying to encourage them not to treat us like poison ivy.
We are not trying to imply that when somebody exaggerates the precautions they are idiots or mean. Probably is just that they are not correctly informed about HIV (even when it has been repeated so many times the ways you can get infected). And also, we are not simplifying the stigma to the cases in which people just want to have sex. Although famous for being hyper-sexual and portraying ourselves that way (thing with which I disagree strongly) we (homosexuals) are not all cut with a cookie cutter. Some of us like to have meaningful and deep relationships and (as many people here have expressed) would take pains not to expose the other person to any chance of infection.
So, when the other person simplifies us with the tag “the poz guy”, it is really unfair and harmful. Nobody writes on their online profiles “I am cancer free-UB2″ because they know that if a person with cancer reads it they would feel very sad and offended. So how come it is OK to write HIV-UB2?
No one likes to wear scarlet letters.
I wanted to comment as well that the expression “turning tables” is not fair. There are not tables at all. We are not responsible of HIV. We might be responsible (in some cases) of acquiring it. But we did not create it. We suffer it. So we cannot turn the tables, because we are no the same side of everyone. HIV is a problem that happened to humanity in total. It has brought sadness to all of us, the positive guys and the negative guys (which includes us, because most of us were not born positive). I know you know that, but the expression suddenly made me feel like we are the ones that should be held responsible of stigma, which we are discussing, and it is not the case.
We are not discussing HIV, or protection, or safe sex, although those topics are related. We are discussing (and exposing) people that come out with terms like “puppet face”, “clean” and “D&D”, horrifying and offensive terms, created by gay guys (we are so witty) that show a lot of disrespect to the dignity of any human been. And terms that show the tip of the iceberg of how people think of HIV.
October 25, 2008 08:37 AM
I agree for the most part with your points, especially as they add clarity to the issue. I suspect the main point the site should emphasize is expressed quite well when you use phrases like: “exclude people with HIV from their lives with the things they say and do” - If the purpose of the site is to encourage a more thoughtful and respectful response to HIV carriers in the community. That should be made really clear, really fast when people hit the home page.
However the tag-line and the site name and some (most?) of the articles on the site (even your own response downplaying the risk of HIV infection) really pushes the focus more towards. “Hey you HIV neg people shouldn’t be so quick to say no to poz people when it comes to having sex.” The not-so-hidden agenda seems to be more sex partners for HIV poz gays. The site doesn’t appear to be mainly about social acceptance, but about sex.
I think that’s a potentially dangerous agenda, and possibly unethical. Its also potentially selfish, and it is not directly connected to the more relational reality of exclusion and inclusion in a community. Sex may be part of that, but its a crass way of judging your own “inclusion” or acceptance. You don’t want to set up a litmus test of “anyone who is afraid to have protected sex with an HIV positive person is clearly ignorant of the facts and a ’stigmatizer’, no matter how supportive and encouraging they are otherwise.” — That just seems to be the sub-text of the stuff I read here. But I am admittedly out of my depth here so people within the gay community can probably judge all this better than me. Just my thoughts from the outside. — Implying people are ignorant and/or bigots won’t win them over.
HIV is harder to catch than a cold, its true. But the point was that precautions others take about my infection don’t automatically equate to a stigmatization of me as a person. I might feel ‘put out’ by the reality of my cold. But to take offense at other people protecting their health would be petulant. And while its harder to catch, its far more deadly… so I wouldn’t question anyone’s precautions in that regard. Abstaining from sex with HIV positive gays should not be portrayed as an offense against the unfortunate carrier of the disease, or an offense against the community.
October 25, 2008 07:22 AM
It’s really great to hear input from the straight community. A few thoughts in response.
“I suppose this topic is not a big deal for monogamous gay people, but is equally an issue for promiscuous heterosexuals. The fact that you assume its a gay issue seems to reveal something about the gay community.”
Not quite exactly, I’d say. The key different is the impact of “prevalence.” It is actually more of an issue in the gay community than for straight folks with multiple partners, though their needs are important. That’s because, for various sociohistorical and biological reasons, there is more HIV among gay men, a lot more. That’s why they are being addressed directly, to try and really make a difference there.
‘Its not “stigmatizing” to want to protect your health … But don’t turn the tables and start blaming others because they act in a prudent way when confronted with a deadly disease. ”
I think the whole point of this site is to say that stigma occurs because some people go far beyond being prudent. If people are clear on the medical facts about HIV and what the real risks of transmission are, sexual and otherwise, they would see that trying to exclude people with HIV from their lives with the things they say and do is actually not going to help them stay clear of getting the virus themselves. And they will see that it is harmful to others when they do that.
HIV is not really comparable to the common cold, it’s a LOT harder to get.
October 25, 2008 04:59 AM
As a funny straight person I can answer your question about what I think about the campaign. It gives me some insight into your community/life and the complications of it.
I find it revealing that you position this as a gay issue, as opposed to an issue for anyone with frequent sex partners. I suppose this topic is not a big deal for monogamous gay people, but is equally an issue for promiscuous heterosexuals. The fact that you assume its a gay issue seems to reveal something about the gay community.
As far as the slogan goes, you can’t dance around what it clearly implies. Neg guys are putting pressure on poz guys not to disclose because they are “stigmatizing” them. That’s a really dangerous word I think. If you want the neg guys onside then throwing around veiled accusations like that won’t help.
Its not “stigmatizing” to want to protect your health. I think the site has to do a good job of unpacking and explaining that word. If you are using it as shock value to bring people here. That’s fine, but when they get here you need to get them “on side” with you. If they come here upset about your portrayal of neg men, you want them on side before they leave.
The irony as an outsider looking in is that this stigmatizing campaign looks much like the pro and anti-gay campaigns. HIV is the source of the fear, and now in the gay community you have gays afraid of other gays. Homophobia is wrong, but is HIVphobia? I think the argument against homophobia was that it was wrong to fear other people just because they were different. True enough. But is it wrong to fear a disease that will kill you?
I would take great pains to separate the idea of the disease from the people carrying it in how you approach the topic, and how you expect negs to approach those poz people. I would not accuse negs of stigmatizing people when they are reacting to a disease.
Short example to wrap it up. When I go into business meetings, and I have just caught a cold. I tell people. and I don’t expect them to shake my hand. If someone else has a cold I have no trouble offering a polite wave. Do they feel stigmatized? Do I fear them or the germs? Its pretty clear to everybody involved.
Now poz men live with that reality every day. I get it. Its hard. Really hard. But it is what it is. You can wish that you didn’t have to live with the consequences of HIV, but wishing isn’t reality. You, and everyone in the community has to live with the consequences. So is there sympathy for the position poz men are in? - sure. But don’t turn the tables and start blaming others because they act in a prudent way when confronted with a deadly disease. You won’t win them to your side that way.
If your goal is to make life a little bit easier and the community more understanding for poz men, then aim for that. And let the community up front know what you are aiming at. This campaign message is pretty cloudy right now. people can’t get onside unless they know what it is you are trying to really accomplish.
October 24, 2008 01:36 PM
“That ANY of you think that you are somehow qualified to gauge the risk that YOU are going to expose someone else to without them being involved in that decision just blows my mind!”
The level of risk is gauged by science and research and evidence, not personal opinions. There are multiple activities that are guaranteed zero risk, and there are also some common activities that are understood to be extremely low risk, some of them even described by epidemiologists as “vanishingly small” (ie, only risky in the unlikely circumstance that both partners were bleeding profusely throughout the sex act).
People engage in those low-risk to no-risk activities with people who are poz but don’t know it. And with people who are poz and do know it. There is not an ethical difference between those two situations. Why would one of them demand disclosure?
October 24, 2008 12:16 PM
OK, everybody. I just wanted to make two points mid-way though this discussion:
1. Some of the comments made here might confuse. Criminal law in Canada is developing and has grey areas, but to date the legal obligation to disclose covers situations where there is a SIGNIFICANT RISK of transmission of HIV. It doesn’t include all sexual activity. If in doubt, and you’re not sure what “significant risk” looks like according to the law, refer to HALCO, contact them here: http://www.halco.org
2. Even though we might disagree with each other, and the discussion may become heated, we need to be non-judgemental. Sometimes that’s not our impulse, I know. But hold off on the finger pointing, guys, be respectful and no name calling here please.
Thanks guys.
October 24, 2008 11:32 AM
Hey Zac,
I hear exactly what you are saying, but to be honest I think you are being somewhat simplistic here. In fact, your observation that “as long as disclosure is considered a choice…” seems to me rather naive. One of the most central problems, I think, and one that is echoed on this website, is the fact that people are making very noble, philosophical claims about what should be–but failing to fully see the reality of “what actually is.” Clearly, if it were as easy as telling people what they “ought” to do then the site could probably close down pretty quickly. BUT it’s not!! Having said this, you sound kind of dismissive and this bothers me…Your argument is absolutely valid on one level–but we know there is more than one level operating here and if we take a purely abstract ethical stance on this, we’re all going to lose as well!!!
October 24, 2008 10:37 AM
One last thing, and then I’m gonna take a break from your blog Bob. Sorry, it was not my intention to be so contentious.
This is from “The Law and Disclosure” page of this site:
Lying about your HIV infection (”I’m HIV negative.”) and not telling your partner about your HIV infection (”He didn’t ask. I didn’t tell.”) are the same thing under the criminal law.
October 24, 2008 10:33 AM
All I can say is, WoW…
That ANY of you think that you are somehow qualified to gauge the risk that YOU are going to expose someone else to without them being involved in that decision just blows my mind!
This conversation absolutely vindicates my catch phrase, “Use Condoms, because people f*cking lie!”, because yes failure to disclose is the same thing as lying!
Wow, just Wow…
Good luck to us all, because as long as disclosure is considered a “choice” then we’re all going to need it.
October 24, 2008 07:08 AM
Zac:
I, like you, intend to disclose always. Now, notice that I say intend. It is very easy for me to say that, because I have not suffered any bad consequences when I disclose. Every time I have done it I have had a very good response.
And I guess that is why I like the slogan. It makes me think. What would happen if I start having bad reactions when I disclose? What if I get mocked, rejected, threatened or black mailed? Would I still have the same disposition? Or would I start thinking differently?
I used to say that I was going to have safe sex always. Never unprotected sex. And I did, for a very long time, consistently, even if I got rejected. Until the time that I did not and got infected. Will the same thing happen with my intention to disclose?
Always, never, those concepts are not made for human beens. We can have strong determinations but we should not forget that we are sensitive to pressure. Social pressure is one of the strongest ones. That is why fighting stigma is so important.
As you said, not disclosing can increase stigma.
But stigma can also wipe out all our good intentions of disclosing.
October 24, 2008 06:55 AM
Poz guys will never fully agree on this stuff (much like neg guys, or our community as a whole, or people in general).
I don’t think compulsory disclosure is a higher standard, and I don’t think of disclosure as “coming clean,” either. I don’t think that consistent disclosure is the ultimate goal, and that we just need to be sensitive to what prevents some of us from reaching that ideal. I don’t believe in an ethical obligation for disclosure (or disclosure being ethically superior) and I never have.
When I was neg, I gave a lot of careful consideration to this, and here is the conclusion I came to: I did not believe that poz guys had any obligation to disclose their status to me, and I was totally clear and firm on that. I never asked anyone’s status and didn’t need to as part of my safer sex strategy. It was my obligation to play safe. That served me very well for a long long time in terms of protecting myself.
When it comes to poz-neg safer sex, we know the risks are very very low and in many cases completely zero, and it doesn’t help us to exaggerate them.
I feel the same way about disclosure and personal responsibility now as I did when I was neg — and no one else’s righteous indignation, guilt, shame, or anger has convinced me differently. It is fully legitimate to be caring, considerate, responsible and NOT believe in compulsory disclosure.
October 24, 2008 05:54 AM
Zac. You are clearly a black and white guy, with strong convictions. But I’ll be frank. Your slogan about why folks should use condoms isn’t going to work. Others have said why. We really need to make sure we don’t unintentionally stigmatize each other here.
As for disclosing every single time, that’s commendable, and its good to hear it works for you. Finding something we are comfortable with, that gives us peace of mind, is important. But I can’t help thinking it’s a standard not everybody can live up to, and this site probes the reasons why. It’s been suggested here that disclosure can lead not just to rejection - OK, so you don’t get laid - but being outed to an entire community. People talk. And that’s a horrific scenario for some. But there are a ton of reasons why dislosure doesn’t always happen. Life is complex, the way we approach sex more so.
Here in Canada, the law doesn’t in fact require us to disclose every single time, only where there is significant risk. You’ll note that some poz guys visiting this site go to great lengths to ensure the safety of their sex partners as an alternative to disclosure. To me that shows responsibility and you won’t hear me knocking that approach here.
What is coming across from this discussion is, if ever there was any doubt, is that our community may be homosexual but it ain’t homogenous. We dont all think the same, thank the gods. Particularly on something as complex as HIV prevention.
October 23, 2008 09:59 PM
To answer the specific question of your post:
If you were rejected every time you disclosed, would you?
Absolutely, I would disclose every single time!
Listen, the truth is quite simple. Statistically alone, there are just WAY too many people out there to be rejected every time you disclose. But even if you are rejected 8 out of 10 times, there are still enough people in the world to fulfill any one’s need for sex/friendship/relationship with the remaining 2%.
If someone has to lie about any trait (physical or otherwise) in order to interact with other people, then they need to take a deep look at themselves to understand their own internal issues, because stigma is the least of their worries…
-Zac
October 23, 2008 09:40 PM
OK, wait, I’m lost here…
I can’t help but think that in rural areas particularly, where confidentiality is key to poz guys’ well-being, the fear of being outed is a major dissincentive to coming clean with sex partners.
Fear of [having one's HIV status] outed is a major dissincentive to coming clean with sex partners?
How about if you fear coming clean that much then you shouldn’t HAVE any sex partners?
So really, we’re back to my slogon, “Use condoms, cause people f*cking lie!” [and no, that wasn't tongue in cheek from my previous post].
There is no truth through omission folks.
Wow, I think that I am totally lost on what this site is trying to accomplish…
Even if we feel that we’re being safe, there is NO way that we can justify taking a chance, no matter how minimal we BELIEVE it to be, with another person’s health.
Full disclosure or you don’t have sex. Period. Anything less, and those of us that do disclose will never be free of stigma.
The target of reducing stigma shouldn’t be on neg guys, it should be on other poz guys first! Until we’re ALL honorable, then how can we possibly expect anything LESS than stigma?
-Zac
October 23, 2008 12:41 PM
Rodger. I think that’s a perceptive analysis. Besides the fear of rejection, the fear of one’s poz status becoming common knowledge - and all that implies - has got be huge. I can’t help but think that in rural areas particularly, where confidentiality is key to poz guys’ well-being, the fear of being outed is a major dissincentive to coming clean with sex partners. The urban experience is problematic too, of course. I hear people gossip in the city, right?
So yes, fear of rejection doesn’t tell the whole story, by any means. As regards the campaign, I think it’s a case where a slogan tries to capture ONE facet of the problem, of the consequences of stigma. That’s hard in just a few words, but we expain the problem more fully on the website itself. Did we pick the right symptom to focus on? Does the rejecton one make poz guys sound irresponsibe and likely to do anything for a good fuck ? You be the judge, but certianly that’s not the intent. The poz guys who worked on this campaign tried very hard to make sure that it didnt stigmatize us any more than we already are.
Clearly the slogan is provocative though. I said in my post that I originally had my doubts with the wordng. Ive grown to like it now - a lot - becasue it it makes guys think - and ultimately that’s what this campaign is about. I’m betting we agree on that at least . .
October 23, 2008 11:05 AM
I don’t have a problem with the slogan. But I do think that it could be read as having an underlying assumption that is hugely problematic: that fear of rejection is the main reason poz gay men don’t disclose. This suggests poz men are so greedy for sex that they are willing to trick someone to get it, that all they care about it getting their rocks off at any cost. And we hear these ideas all the time. I hear them from neg guys who have a lot of anger toward poz guys.
That’s not the reason I don’t disclose. I like sex as much as the other person and I think it’s a healthy thing, but I don’t need it so desperately. I play safe to protect other guys. I don’t disclose not because of fear of rejection in a sexual encounter, but because even Toronto can feel like a small town sometimes and being gossiped about and outed as poz would have a huge impact on me and my life and my family and my job and on so many levels. I’m not willing to assume the psychological weight of that life-changing event when I can play safely instead. The risk of outing poz guys is far higher than any risk to neg guys when we all play safe.
October 22, 2008 08:34 PM
Hi David. Thanks for dropping by. I havent been involved in the marketing side of this campaign much, so I was agreeably surprised by how extensively the ads etc. are out there. I think they look great, by the way. Let’s hope they get noticed.
October 22, 2008 08:31 PM
Jim. Absolutely. New infections are on the rise again in the gay community. We tend to be more focussed now on finding out exactly why gay guys sometimes engage in risky behaviours, through research, and there’s been a lot of it. The issue of stigma comes up frequently as a factor which makes it diffcult for poz guys to disclose (I can vouch for that) and prevents others from getting tested for fear of the social consequences. So stigma has been targetted as a contributing factor to HIV transmission. In an era where ads pushing condom use are perhaps becoming stale (or at least that’s my view) a campaign which addresses the complexities of human behaviour seems to me to have a better chance.
October 22, 2008 08:07 PM
Eremir. Hi again. The campaign is from GMSH - Ontario’s Gay Mens Sexual Health Alliance. It’s a provincail coalition of gay men and their allies from community-based AIDS Service Organzations, public health, HIV researchers, policy makers and other community members. Good group - I’ve worked with them for a few years now, strictly as a volunteer though.
Youre right, campaigns like this cost big bucks. But it’s always been the position of our community - we say this to the federal government regularly, they hear only sporadically - that money on HIV prevention is well spent, because it actually saves healtlh care dollars.
I’m not sure when these big ads went up - I’m not a Toronto boy as you know, just a tourist (or rather I feel like one, with my camera and all. I used to live in Cabbagetown before we moved to the country.)
But I think the ads went up only within the last few days.
I’m really glad you like the slogan, though. When I first heard it months ago I thought hmmmm - not sure. But I’m a worrier by nature anyway. Now I really like the slogan too.
October 22, 2008 08:07 PM
Wow! great pics, I am assuming and I don’t have numbers but with an aggresive campaign like that, the new rates of HIV infection must be skyrocketing and stigma is somehow fuelling this increase? Any thoughts?
October 22, 2008 07:57 PM
Great pics Bob! Let’s see what kind of discussion those advertisements generate over the next little while.
October 22, 2008 07:35 PM
Hi Bob:
Great ad campaing!. I have to say that even when I leave 5 blocks from there, and I walked there last Sunday to go the the sad closing sale of This Ain’t the Rosedale Library (sniff sniff) I di d not notice the posters. But I have to work everyday with posters and ads, so I kind off ignore all of them after 5:00 PM and on weekends : )
But they look great. I particularly like the one placed over the drug store. That one captures a lot of attention because the street lights are just in front of it. But the one that I find amazing is the big banner at the Church and Wellesley station. That is something! It looks wonderful. That one for sure is going to be noticed.
Who is running this campaign? That is a lot of money! Not only for the quality of the website and the ads, but for the locations. You don’t see that kind of money spent these days unless the one spending it will get a monetary benefit back. That is something remarkable. Thanks so much to whomever is paying for this campaign. It is a wonderful action. They should be paraded the next pride day on the first float : )
I think the slogan is great. As you say it is sophisticated and intelligent. I don’t think it matters too much if they don’t get the message first thing when they read it. I think that is why it is so powerful, the slogan. It is uncomfortable to read. It triggers complicated thoughts. It triggers strong responses. It will stay in their minds and make them think. The stigma and its negativity will come out as a result, even if they don’t voice it.
A slogan that tells you what to think is useless. “Please do not stigmatize people with HIV. Thanks.” That kind of kindergarten teacher slogan gets discarded as soon as it gets read. It is like a solved puzzle. You read it and say “ah yes, it’s true, I won’t” and 5 seconds after your brain has been washed out by the new cute doggy on a Fido ad.
I guess the slogan is good because it does not disclose completelly its message. Ha, am I good with puns or what?